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#21 LizT

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Posted 25 September 2017 - 05:44 PM

I no longer have to deal with this issue as mine are 10 and 13, both communicants and DS is confirmed.  Even before dd made her first Holy Communion and they had started a Junior Liturgy at our church, she refused to go to it, the price for not doing so being to listen and be still, and she was upset when the people running the Junior Liturgy insisted that those in the Communion class (which met during the week) had to attend that as well.  But then, you see, most in her class did not usually come to church, so for them it was perhaps a way in.  DD found it babyish.

 

When they were small there wasn't a Junior Liturgy in the Catholic churches near us.  We used to go to one where I had the horrible experience.  We had to sit at the front on the far left, because that was by the door to the loos and a room you could go in if necessary, and when I was on my own one week with a couple-of-month old and and a 3 year old, trying to discretely latch on a crying dd, and not disturb ds by forcing him out and necessarily leaving his special church bag behind (not enough hands) - potential screams in doorway - even worse - and the priest said from the front, "Can you please take crying children out?"  or something, and waited till I went.  I managed to struggle out, with 2 children and clobber and boob not showing, and never went back, I was so ashamed.  But why should I have been? - I was actually doing my best to minimise the disruption of my children to the church.  In another few seconds I would probably have succeeded in stopping dd crying, less than the disruption of decamping.  Noone helped by the way.  Should I just have spent every Mass outside all the time?  When I came dd was asleep, and ds was fine as long as he had his bag.

 

But that experience hasn't always stopped me being judgemental, not of people who are trying to quieten their children, or struggling with them or taking them in and out, but of those who ignore them crying and don't do anything to try to take account of the rest of the congregation - like let 2 year olds run up and down the aisle shouting.  I am glad, though, that I go to a church where the priest never comments even under extreme provocation.

 

When they were little I used to have a special Church Bag, with bible picture books and sticker books, and crayons and a couple of dolls of biblical characters and 2 religious jigsaw puzzzles, and I used to vary the content according to the church year, so that there was always something new and interesting to look at.  When I was feeling particularly prepared, I read the main stories to them before and drew a colouring for them to do.

 

My mum's church has a creche, but also gives out Church Bags to families and is happy for them to stay in if they want.


Edited by LizT, 25 September 2017 - 05:45 PM.


#22 hepzibah

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:10 AM

Not sure this is exactly on topic but I read this today ... what do you think?

 

http://thefederalist...campaign=buffer


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#23 EnglishMuffin

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 09:22 AM

Interesting. I know that one of my kids professes to be an atheist, but still comes along to church, partly for friends, partly because it is what we do, and partly because she wants a safe place to ask her questions. ( Not sure it actually is the last one, but still)
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#24 BecD

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 10:31 AM

Just popping in to ask you to pray about this... I have a friend from church who helps me clean and she brought it up yesterday as she's struggling with the noise and said that other people have made comments to her. There is a leadership meeting this evening and it may come up as an item to discuss. Please pray for wisdom for the leaders. Thank you. X

Me and DH, DD (5) and DS (3)

 

2017 – “Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. I say to myself, “The Lord is my portion; therefore I will wait for him.”” Lamentations 3:22-24


#25 Barbara

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 11:08 AM

will do


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#26 JulietJoy

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:30 PM

Will pray.

 

It doesn't bode well that they seem unable to see that other people make different choices and they fervently believe that they are the right (and are biblical) choices.

 

We have had similar comments about our family (although not about school choices). I work full time in a senior job and Stephen works away regularly. We both believe that our jobs are part of our mission and calling and that our children are a gift from God but they don't define us. Our choice is different to other people's choices but we still believe that it is right before God. I've been told that I am sinning against God's ordained plan for women and for mothers and that I am neglecting my husband and children.  One of them even told my husband that he needed to put his foot down and make me give up work and that if he didn't he was failing as a husband!

 

I can't remember who said something about them having to understand that the church isn't set up in the way that they want it to be. This is so important for them. Will pray that they can see this - and that the leaders are able to address the needs of the congregation too.  There's a real risk that they will keep moving from church to church, trying to find one that does it "their way" and will never find one.



#27 EnglishMuffin

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 12:42 PM

Are they internet users? Because that's where I picked up a lot of these ideas. Popular in pockets of America, but few and far between in the UK. Though they do exist, obviously, or we wouldn't have had a church for nigh on a decade. But the internet can feed a lot of convictions that wouldn't necessarily occur to us in the average church setting.

I do hope a compromise can be reached, or indeed, they will likely not find a church home for quite some time.

Edited by EnglishMuffin, 26 September 2017 - 12:42 PM.

Dh 44 Me 40 Dd1 15 Dd2 13 Dd3 11 Ds 10

hp1.gifAslan is on the move!

Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

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#28 Dipsy

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:11 PM

Not sure this is exactly on topic but I read this today ... what do you think?

 

http://thefederalist...campaign=buffer

 

I like that!

 

 

I remember talking with some older ladies once and saying how I struggled never hearing a sermon because of taking the children out and needing to stay with one or more of them. One told me it was a very short phase in life, but I had been in that phase for about 12 years at that stage and am still in it, now at 20.5 years! We came to the conclusion many years ago that getting the family to church each week, no matter how little we got from it, was our form of worship. I can go an entire church service without so much as singing a hymn on occasion, but my going there to pace the corridor with a screaming baby, dealing with a nappy blow out without a bath, being stuck in the loos with a pooing toddler, staying with a clingy child or whatever it happens to be, is my hymn of praise. 


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#29 EnglishMuffin

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 01:14 PM

Times like this I would appreciate the 'like' function to work, as I 'like' that post, Dipsy.
Dh 44 Me 40 Dd1 15 Dd2 13 Dd3 11 Ds 10

hp1.gifAslan is on the move!

Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

Whether we like it or not - We are LOVED; Fr. Thomas Hopko.

#30 Ju

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 07:04 PM

Dipsy, thank you for the reminder that simply getting to church is in itself an act of worship, even if the rest is such a struggle!

Ju beautiful, amazing dd 13yo fabulous, gorgeous ds 4yo

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#31 BecD

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Posted 29 September 2017 - 08:11 PM

No idea if it was discussed on Tuesday but I'm really praying that as a church we can all learn and mature through this.

Thank you for the reminder about why we take kids to church Dipsy!

Me and DH, DD (5) and DS (3)

 

2017 – “Because of the Lord’s great love we are not consumed, for his compassions never fail. They are new every morning; great is your faithfulness. I say to myself, “The Lord is my portion; therefore I will wait for him.”” Lamentations 3:22-24


#32 Blessed By His Grace

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:33 AM

I'm a little shocked by the judgemtalism from some of the congregation and from this Mum you talk about Bec. I think my advice to you would be to be a friend to her if you want to, because you like her, or would gain from the relationship too. Friendships are two way things. But I'd take a step back from feeling there's a problem to be solved that is partly yours to solve. I'd leave the problem, if indeed there is one, to the church leaders alone and concentrate on whether or not you would choose this lady as a friend, say if she didn't attend your church?

Personally I've never minded children staying in church for the whole service and never using Sunday school provision, I don't mind the noise children make when communicating or playing but would hope that a parent would encourage the children to be quiet enough so that the congregation are still able to hear the words of the sermon. If I was finding it difficult to hear the sermon, I'd go and sit somewhere I'd be most likely to hear it, if that fails and I still couldn't hear the sermon then I'd mention that to the church leaders as it's their problem to deal with rather than mine but if you have decided this lady is someone you feel is a friend and she is in a two way give and take relationship with you I would probably mention that despite moving to a better position, that I'd not been able to hear the sermon myself. Said as a fact rather than as a judgement of someone else's choices. But I'd only befriend her at all if I felt she was a true friend iykwim, respected me for example.

I actually think this is a sad situation and I'm pleased I'm not the church leader who's job it is to deal with the problem, if there is one. I don't know of any theological reason for children to stay in during a sermon or go out. Jesus did welcome children around Him when He was teaching though, maybe the couple have taken that fact as instruction that children should be there but I don't think that passage was intended to teach us that. More that it's not wrong for them to be there during preaching per se. But can see that if children's noise is preventing people from hearing a sermon it does become the church leaders problem and something needs saying. By them. All I would do is a) pray for wisdom for the church leaders as they deal with this and b) decide whether this person is who I'd want as a friend. If not I'd choose to have fellowship with people whose company is edifying and who you feel has mutual respect for you, as out hem.

Hope that garble makes sense and of course it's merely my opinion.
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